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Post by G. Gerald Garcia on Mar 27, 2005 1:32:10 GMT -7
Short run with HIGH QUALITY? Or QUANTITY run with low QUALITY? COMIXPRESS for print on demand,low production values. How many of us have bought any book books from them? Did you like the presentation? Self published at KINKOS or STAPLES...some of the assembly done by the creators. Offers more control, but is it cost effective? Any other thoughts and suggestions? (This conversation started with Mr.Vince & Mr.Johnny.) GarSeeYa!!!
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Mr. Vince
MIC AGENT
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Posts: 249
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Post by Mr. Vince on Mar 27, 2005 3:52:10 GMT -7
I think it really depends on why you do the comics in the first place. If its your hobby or you're just doing it for fun, I think the self-printing option would serve best. It's by far, the fastest and perhaps the cheapest way to do it. However, if you are very serious about putting out a product that you could sell, promote, or use as portfolio/submission, then go for the gusto.
While I find nothing wrong with mini-comics/ashcan editions, there is always a stigma about them. It's unavoidable for many, and it may even be worse for the studios when they get them in the mail. There's just so many bad mini-comics out there with sloppy layouts and untrimmed edges, it really smacks of amateur night. But, I do have some mini-comics that are amazingly good, not naming names, you know who you are. While story is still king, the medium on which their printed still matters. A little extra here and there can go a long way in presentation.
On the other hand, printing on good paper at full size instantly makes your book look more professional. When submitting to a studio who only prints on standard sizes, it helps them to see more or less what the final product will become.
Now, I've also heard that alot of pro-artists at cons will make their own little sketchbooks or 'passports' to make some coinage. They're usually in mini-comic or slightly smaller than standard size and they sometimes go for 10 american bucks. For about 1.50 worth of printing, you can see why they do it. They give the fans what they want and they see a sizable return. But they have a celebrity-status and reputation that we don't. So that's not really a feasible option for indy creators.
So like I've said, it really boils down to why you're doing the comics in the first place. If its a hobby, you probably wouldn't do a huge expensive book with a run of 1000. You'll be stuck with a huge tab wondering why you did it in the first place, whereas a mini-comic is less-risky and does have a gitchy kind of quality.
As far as Comixpress goes, Mr. Johnny and we, ordered some Ronin Studios stuff both to check the quality of the print and what Ronin could produce. The comic printing itself was pretty well done. I wasn't too crazy about the cover paper though, it was between fax paper and a glossy poster. I'd prefer either the same paper as the interiors or straight-out cardstock. They don't have better unit-prices on larger print runs, but the printing and trimming looks professional. I do think that Comixpress is good in the sense that they'll handle online sales and shipping for you, but when you do the math, don't do an entire print run through them. You'll pay through the nose for customs and shipping. And to be honest, their prices could be better now that i've seen the quality of print. They really do seem to cater to internet sales as they'll solicit any book you send with a minimum print run of one copy.
As for domestic options, you'd be better off doing printruns at places like Quebecor or even you're friendly neighbourhood printshop. Work on some math to find out how much you're willing to pay for a book and whether or not you can cover the printing costs back with a little profit left over. There's always more costs, like conventions, travelling and art supplies, that is all legimate overhead when it comes to the business of comics. There's a reason why they say, don't quit your day job. Printing is definately more of the business aspect of comics.
That's all I got for now.
-Vince-
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Post by attoboy on Mar 29, 2005 10:57:27 GMT -7
A buddy who has published comics recommends Preney: "I was quite happy with Preney Print in Windsor: www.preneyprint.com
They were cheaper than Quebecor and quite professional. The paper stock was the same as what Cerebus the Aardvark used to be printed on, not amazing, but it certainly did the job. We had all sorts of greyscaling to contend with and no problems with it being printed." I have all his comics, and they look pretty good. He may be doing something this fall. If so, I will try to bring some sample copies to an ACCA function are something. Checked out Preney's site. They quote a basic comics package as: 70lb glossy cover stock with cmyk outside and black inside, 32pg b/w interior, 2000 comics for 814CAN. So that's not too bad. Depends on your budget and intentions, I suppose. Woops! Turns out that's 814US, not 814CAN, so more like 1020CAN. Probably about 1.35 per book after GST and shipping and GST on the shipping and GST on the GST. Cheers! -Derek
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Diaperman
New Member
Read Diaperman-- http://www.diaperman.ca
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Post by Diaperman on Apr 14, 2005 10:45:21 GMT -7
I used to use Kinko's for all my small-run comics. Then at a convention in the States someone hit me up to print my comics -- DreamWeaver Press. www.dreamweaverpress.comFor $105.00 USD I got 25 perfect bound, 28-page comics with glossy color cover, no inside cover, and quality b&w interiors. Not only was it CHEAPER than Kinko's (price per unit is about $5 US after shipping costs as opposed to $10 CDN per unit AND I had to do all my own collating, scoring and stapling) but it was less effort, looked more professional and was basically just a JOY to behold. Now I'm wondering if there's a CANADIAN company the does perfect binding with such joyous, email-us-the-.pdf ease with small print runs.
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Mr. Vince
MIC AGENT
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Posts: 249
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Post by Mr. Vince on May 7, 2005 0:44:23 GMT -7
Diaperman,
Look no further than your friendly neighbourhood print shop. There's probably well over 4 dozen of them in town minus the franchise shops. So competitive pricing is in the air! For Round One, we were just going to look into saddlestitching, but once we found out about perfect-binding options, we went for the gusto. And now that we have our book finished, we're glad we went for the perfect bind.
Just grab a phone book and start grabbing some quotes. I'd definately recommend going local. You get a chance to talk one on one with the printer, get some info on the process, and even go over printing proofs before the entire run is started. There's no hassles with shipping or customs for that matter.
Oh, and as we found out, any respectable printing shop will take, and in many cases, prefer PDFs. Most places didn't have a minimum order requirement, but they do offer better unit-prices the higher the print run.
Even if you just need some b/w photocopies for an ashcan, many indy print shops will have better prices than Staples or Kinkos.
Hope that helped.
-Vince-
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Chris
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Posts: 211
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Post by Chris on May 7, 2005 14:15:55 GMT -7
How many issues of round one did you end up printing?
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Mr. Vince
MIC AGENT
Friendly Giant
Posts: 249
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Post by Mr. Vince on May 7, 2005 16:58:20 GMT -7
Truth be told, we went for a 200 issue print run. We would've gotten a better unit-price if we went for more, but we weren't sure how our book would be recieved both locally and when we'd go to solicit in other cities. We figured we'd rather sell-out or come close to selling-out, instead of printing like a thousand and having 800, 900 unsold books taunting us from the boxes in the corner. We're all in agreement that this book, being kind of our flapship title, would definitely give us more accurate market information compared to all the ashcans put out before. We're gonna watch all aspects of sales to demographics, audience ages and even how each store markets and consigns the book. We'll learn everything we can from this book.
And sure, this book was pretty pricey to print, but if we do get a following, then the next book we can gamble on doing a larger print run, especially if the first one sells out.
Originally we wanted to do 50. Then it became 80, then 150 and finally 200. We've being giving out promotional copies to retailers and what not, so you'll have to consider promotional losses as well. Finding what works for you can take some considerable time and planning.
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SBM
New Member
Posts: 15
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Post by SBM on Jun 5, 2005 19:27:17 GMT -7
Hey guess what! I just started working at a print shop about a month ago (Maranda Reprographics & Printing). Gerald suggested I write a post in this thread, so here it is.
Now that I'm getting comfortable with how the place works and the people I work with, I thought I would invite you guys to let me see if I can swing a better deal than you've been able to find for printing comic books...but WITHOUT sacrificing quality! As an aside, in my own freelance work I have taken my printing to Maranda and I've never been disappointed...and now, being able to work there is a dream come true.
So, if anyone is interested, or if you have any questions, please let me know here - or send me a PM - with details about what you're wanting to print and let me see what I can come up with.
I was telling Gerald that if enough people come to Maranda for printing comics, then I could get an even better deal for the MIC collective.
Thanks all!
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