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Post by Rik on May 10, 2005 20:15:44 GMT -7
I know that the comic came out a while ago. I figure everybody had read the book except me. I saw the hype, heard about Miller's return to Batman, waited for the acclaim......but then weirdly enough, the book disapeared without so much as a whimper. I thought in the back of my mind-Was it really THAT bad? How could it be? It was FRANK MILLER for crying out loud! The Dark Knight Returns was pure genius!
Now, I don't collect comics anymore (though I follow Wizard every month) so it was only recently that I had an opportunity to FINALLY read the trade paperback. I started it...........but couldn't finish it!
It was so terrible, that I could scarcely believe what I was reading! Now, I don't claim to be anywhere near the calibur of Miller, but c'mon!This was pure drivel!
However, to be fair to Mr. Miller (with all due respect),
I have to admit.....If DC were to offer me a million dollar advance to write a comic, whether I had any ideas or not, I'm sure I could come up with something! There's just no guarantee that I would end up with Shakespeare. Money is a great motivater, but it does NOT create inspiration.
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Mr. Vince
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Post by Mr. Vince on May 10, 2005 20:56:35 GMT -7
Yeah, I agree, The Dark Knight Returns was hella good. My old teacher went on 45 min rants about how bad the artwork was on Dark Knight Strikes Back. He said the story was interesting though. About a year after it was released I finally got to sit down and read it.
I gotta admit, it WAS a pretty interesting story. The whole Ray Palmer thing at the beginning was really cool to me. The art though, not so good. There were a few good panels where I could almost see the former Frank Miller. It was kinda this weird mix of 300 and Howard Chaykin done during 24 Hour Comic Book day.
I do notice that pretty much all of Miller's writing has this really slow build at the beginning and then right away this fevered pitch kicks in and you can't stop reading till the end. That's actually how I'd describe Millers writing from now on. Fevered. As far as what happened here, I don't know. Miller got paid, people got angry. Such is life. I really just see this is a huge apocalyptic DC story where the editors let Frank do his thing. What I think will be really interesting is what Miller will follow up with.
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Post by Mr. Nick on May 10, 2005 22:08:25 GMT -7
The book was good, it just didn't seem like a solo batman book. It was kinda like Miller's version of Kingdom Come where you saw quick glimpses of Batman. There was a lot of seperate cool things going on, though as a cohesive work it was all over the place. A mixed bag with a few good character pieces thrown in.
You'll notice I don't mention the art. Because it's not worth it. It's garbage, and the coloring . . . god, I could have done a better job with crayons.
The whole project seemed really rushed though it came in over six months late. Truth be told, I've read it three times and I'll probably read it again. Filled with as much disappointment as wonder.
Bitter sweet.
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Post by G. Gerald Garcia on May 11, 2005 6:40:07 GMT -7
... Miller got paid, people got angry. Such is life. I really just see this is a huge apocalyptic DC story where the editors let Frank do his thing. What I think will be really interesting is what Miller will follow up with. DC Editors stepped in on the last issue. They had objections to some of the content-something to do with Robin? That was why the book was held back for months, so it could be reworked. So we never got the whole story,few people will. There were some fun ideas in there though: FLASH as an energy source-cool.Some of the ideas were generated 20 years ago, still sitting in FM's sketchbook?  Next project: Batman & Robin with Jim Lee. FM writes. I will still check it out! Most likely buy it. GarSeeYa!!! |
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Post by Andrew on May 11, 2005 19:18:10 GMT -7
>You'll notice I don't mention the art. Because it's not worth it. It's garbage, and the coloring . . . god, I could have done a better job with crayons. <
While I really didn't like the series (as my wife, who loved it, will attest), I maintain that Miller's style on the book was a valid artistic choice, and a logical progression of his overall stylistic evolution. I don't think he was at all out of control, artistically--I suspect he was deliberately flouting expectation with the hopes of pissing people off.
Which I can accept, when it comes to art.
My editor at Platinum was working at DC when the original DKR was underway. When discussing DKSA, he said, "Rhymes-with-Rick Giordano made Miller rewrite the script to DKR five times before he allowed it to go forward. I seriously doubt anyone made him rewrite this series."
(I've heard editorial got involved in the third issue, as well, though considering what *was* in that issue, I personally have a hard time believing they made any significant changes to it. I *could* easily believe they spent six months begging him to change something, with him saying "No"...)
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Post by Andrew on May 11, 2005 19:22:04 GMT -7
What I think will be really interesting is what Miller will follow up with. In addition to ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN, I understand that Miller confirmed a project I first heard rumoured in Rich Johnston's Lying in The Gutters column at ComicBookResources.com in a piece in Entertainment Weekly--a 200+ page B&W graphic novel written and drawn by Miller called HOLY TERROR, BATMAN!, which will feature Batman vs. Al Qaeda (or at least Al Qaeda-ish terrorists). On the Sin City panel in San Diego last year, he also said he was planning on doing more Sin City comics. I understand his 300-ish reworking of Jesus Christ's life story, JESUS!, has been put on hold. Which, if true, is a shame, really. |
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Post by CogNoman on May 11, 2005 20:15:53 GMT -7
I understand his 300-ish reworking of Jesus Christ's life story, JESUS!, has been put on hold. Which, if true, is a shame, really. Yeah, that's too bad. It would be pretty cool to see Jesus beat the stuffing out of some sinners, Frank Miller-style, heh heh. Oh, and can somebody explain what's so great about "Dark Knight Returns" anyway? I've heard that a lot of people love the book (and I've even heard that it's basically acknowledged as the 'second-best graphic novel of all time', behind Watchmen), but when I read it, it, sadly, failed to blow my mind. Miller's got a very unique art-style, which is cool, but from what I can remember, I couldn't get in to the story. I've got nothing against machosim and cheesy one-liners (the "Mortal Kombat" movie is one of my favourite movies of all time), but I think I just found his writing a little too 'stereotypically' macho, or something. Maybe I just missed the point, though. I'm planning to read it again, sometime, to see if I somehow just missed all the greatness hiding in the pages. But, yeah, why do the people who like it, like it? |
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Mr. Vince
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Post by Mr. Vince on May 11, 2005 23:30:00 GMT -7
Well Conor, I didn't totally like it at first. But after the second time, I saw the magic. It was basically a sort of an apocalyptic batman story. He's retired, the city's going to hell and then he realizes that he isn't really Bruce Wayne after all these years. He's the freaking Batman. And like a pimp he descends on the street urchins, instilling cowardice and superstition on the criminals of gotham once more. Then there was the whole bit with Two-face being cured and then rampaging again and let's not forget the final showdown between him and the joker. The entire time too, you have to realize that Batman is really showing his age and really starting to lose it mentally. But he's more focused than ever and he's scaring everyone around him, even Superman.
I dunno, again once the news and the city start to realize that batman's back, Miller hits that fevered pitch and you just have to ride it. It was just d**n cool.
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Post by Rik on May 12, 2005 16:27:57 GMT -7
Oh, and can somebody explain what's so great about "Dark Knight Returns" anyway?-CogNoman
You have to remember when 'The Dark Knight Returns' came out. It was the late 80's and comic books had yet to come of age. To most people, Batman meant Adam West and Superfriends,not serious literature. The comics at the time (especially at DC) were still geared towards kids and the idea of a comic without the 'comics code' approval was unheard of for superheroes in North America. Besides a few scattered issues of Neal adams Batman stories in the 70's, Batman was pretty much a time worn character with not much in the way of surprises. The stories were formulaic, and the character watered down.
Then came 'The Dark Knight Returns' and a return to glory for the character. Batman was mean, angry and not afraid to break a few bones to make his point.
One critic at the time wrote: "This brutal, fateful confrontation-played out against the backdrop of a nuclear winter-likely will have the comics world spinning for years to come."
It was the era of Reaganomics, the Cold War and yuppies. Generation X had arrived and they were jaded, pessimistic, and streetwise. Sugar coated superheroes werea thing of the past.....and Miller's book reflected the turning of the tide for comics.
The classic Batman epic may seem tame by todays standards,but when it came out, it blew people's minds!!! This and Watchmen set a new standard, proving that comics were not just for kids anymore.
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Mr. Vince
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Post by Mr. Vince on May 12, 2005 16:45:13 GMT -7
It was the era of Reaganomics, the Cold War and yuppies. Generation X had arrived and they were jaded, pessimistic, and streetwise. Sugar coated superheroes werea thing of the past.....and Miller's book reflected the turning of the tide for comics. The classic Batman epic may seem tame by todays standards,but when it came out, it blew people's minds!!! This and Watchmen set a new standard, proving that comics were not just for kids anymore. That is a d**n good point as well Rik. The cold war was a crazy time for those who remember it. Having that looming threat over everyone's head always ensures madness. Paralleling real events and issues can make a comic books' impact that much more effective. I started reading V for Vendetta recently, and even though it was first published in 1988, some of the issues and ideas are still scarily relevant. |
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